When Good People Have Affairs and over one million other books are available for Amazon Kindle. Learn more
Have one to sell?
Flip to back Flip to front
Listen Playing... Paused   You're listening to a sample of the Audible audio edition.
Learn more
See this image

When Good People Have Affairs: Inside the Hearts & Minds of People in Two Relationships Hardcover – May 27 2008


See all 4 formats and editions Hide other formats and editions
Amazon Price New from Used from
Kindle Edition
"Please retry"
Hardcover
"Please retry"
CDN$ 56.72 CDN$ 0.01

Join Amazon Student in Canada



NO_CONTENT_IN_FEATURE

Product Details

  • Hardcover: 272 pages
  • Publisher: St. Martin's Press (May 27 2008)
  • Language: English
  • ISBN-10: 0312378475
  • ISBN-13: 978-0312378479
  • Product Dimensions: 2.3 x 17 x 23.9 cm
  • Shipping Weight: 476 g
  • Average Customer Review: 5.0 out of 5 stars  See all reviews (2 customer reviews)
  • Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #545,958 in Books (See Top 100 in Books)

Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5 stars
5 star
2
4 star
0
3 star
0
2 star
0
1 star
0
See both customer reviews
Share your thoughts with other customers

Most helpful customer reviews

By Maria on March 12 2014
Format: Kindle Edition Verified Purchase
Very clear written in a no nonsense language.
Immensely helpful in understanding affairs and reactions of people in those positions.
Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Sending feedback...
Thank you for your feedback. If this review is inappropriate, please let us know.
Sorry, we failed to record your vote. Please try again.
By Mary Ryder on Sept. 12 2013
Format: Paperback Verified Purchase
I moment I started reading this book I knew that I had chosen the right book. I saw myself in a lot of it. Just turning 50 last year and losing my job. I have that stuck feeling. Low self esteem. Being married for 32 years. Our children left the nest many years ago :)And a few other things.
It has some wonderful tools to try and apply and I am looking forward to it.
Life doesnt wait it keeps going.
Thank you for a wonderful read.
Was this review helpful to you? Yes No Sending feedback...
Thank you for your feedback. If this review is inappropriate, please let us know.
Sorry, we failed to record your vote. Please try again.

Most Helpful Customer Reviews on Amazon.com (beta)

Amazon.com: 60 reviews
132 of 144 people found the following review helpful
First Hand Experience! June 3 2008
By mirose - Published on Amazon.com
Format: Hardcover Verified Purchase
This book is outstanding. It will help you figure out what you are doing and why you are doing it. Once you have figured that out, you can start to make the decisions you need to make to get your life back on track. being stuck between two relationships is no way to go through life. It is destructive and hurtful to EVERYONE involved. In NO WAY does this book try to condone the behavior of people who cheat. Mira simply recognizes that infidelity is a fact of life (75% of couples will be touched by it at some point), and the most important thing is to help people figure out why they have stepped beyond their primary relationship so that they can decide what to do next. Mira clearly distinguishes between sociopathic louts who cheat simply because they "can", and the otherwise good person who has, quite uncharacteristically, "strayed" and is now in WAY over their head in a second relationship.

The book is comprehensive but spends most of its time helping you figure out who is right for you, the primary partner or the affair partner. I think this section is outstanding, and Mira tackles a subject that few if any other authors have ever dared approach. While it is very helpful (she has found a way to compare apples to oranges!!!), I think one of the things left out (probably because it is so individual) is transaction costs. What I mean is even if you figure out (with Mira's techniques) that the "affair" partner is better for you, you still have to go through a divorce, split up money and assets, give up at least 1/2 of the time with your children, lose many of your friends, move out of the house, start your life over from scratch etc etc. How do you factor that in? How MUCH better does the affair partner have to be to justify this upheaval? Again, this will be different for everyone. Someone who has not much to lose might leave for a marginally "better" partner. Someone with a LOT to lose is only going to leave for a MUCH better situation. So in the end this is a difficult decision that should NOT be made impulsively. It should be made after careful thought and analysis, and this book CERTAINLY helps put 90% of the important issues into perspective to make this difficult decision. I recommend a good local therapist to help you out with the individual aspects of YOUR situation.

I have read the book from cover to cover and I recommend it HIGHLY. It helped me sort out my own situation. Thank god it came out in such a timely manner. Good luck with your own ordeal...I KNOW it is NOT EASY!! I have intentionally not said what I ended up doing....I remember when I first started trying to figure out what to do about my own situation I would read reviews like this and try to see who stayed and who left and tried to read into that information to see what I should do...I don't want to sway anyone one way or the other. GOOD LUCK!
109 of 120 people found the following review helpful
If your life has been touched by an affair, this is a great book May 30 2008
By Amazon Customer - Published on Amazon.com
Format: Hardcover
If your life has been touched by an affair, whether you're the cheater or you've been cheated on, this is an incredibly wise and helpful book by someone with a LOT of experience helping people put their lives and marriages back together.
I want to say why this book is so good, but first I have to comment on Jillian C. "Qbridge"'s incredibly irresponsible review. Jillian has obviously not read the book, nor does she seem to have any experience actually helping people who are trying to deal with an affair, nor does she seem to be interested in helping people put their lives together after an affair. If she'd read the book, she'd have seen how Kirshenbaum clearly says you should not have an affair. But you do NOT help people who've been affected by an affair by labeling the cheater as "bad." Why would any wife want to heal her marriage if her husband is by definition "bad"? Does Jillian want every couple touched by an affair to get a divorce? Yes, the deed is a hurtful mistake, and Kirshenbaum goes to great lengths to show how, if there is going to be any hope of healing, the cheater has to show that he truly understands the pain and damage he's caused. That's the kind of thing in the REAL book, not Jillian's fantasy. It was careless and dishonest for Jillian to review the words of the title and not read or review the real book.
In reality, Kirshenbaum devotes many chapters to showing how to heal a marriage after it's been damaged by an affair, and this is the best help of its kind I've seen.
Another thing Kirshenbaum does that I've never seen before and is incredibly helpful is show that there are 17 different kinds of affairs. Each one grows out of a different need. Each one means something completely different. You can't know how to figure things out until you know why you or your partner had an affair in the first place. This is what a therapist would charge big bucks for, but you get it all in this book.
And Kirshenbaum has a lot of material on how to protect the kids and take them into account.
I've had a lot of experience helping people and couples deal with an affair, and I have to say this book will give everyday folk all the help they could need. The truth is that an affair is a turning point in people's lives. There's a lot to sort out. And a lot of anger and hurt. Kirshenbaum shows how to take all this into account and do what's best for everybody in the end.
53 of 58 people found the following review helpful
Dangerous and Flawed Oct. 13 2012
By Kangaroo - Published on Amazon.com
Format: Paperback
There is too much validation for the poor coping mechanisms which lead to choosing infidelity without sufficient warnings regarding the dangers. Though the author discusses the dangers; she lacks fair balance.
The premise is good: Help men and women who are having or have had an affair to understand why they did or are doing this. The paradox of being both saint and sinner can be confusing.

Do Not Confess (Keep Lying) (p. 19-20)
Kirshenbaum encourages not confessing--even when confronted (with exceptions) because...

* it is unkind and will create pain.
But the pain is not caused by confession; it is the act of betrayal that creates the pain. The confession simply makes it known.

* it will result in permanent pain, grief, mistrust and insecurity for the betrayed spouse.
This statement implies universality--that for 100% of betrayed spouses they will never overcome those things. I was a betrayed spouse and I am none of those things.

* she values kindness--not inflicting pain on another--as a higher value than honesty.
Each individual chooses what they value and the degree to which they value something. Both honesty and kindness are valuable and which is more important is a personal choice. The author supposedly values kindness more highly than honesty. But it is unkind to have an affair and it is apparently unkind to confess--even when asked.

She advises confessing if discovery is imminent or likely. How does a betraying partner know that it is not imminent or likely? If their spouse is asking, they may already know; they likely have good reason to be asking.
Kirshenbaum is encouraging allowing the betrayed partner to believe that their fantasy life is real. Discovery of that fantasy can shake a person to their very core. It not only destroys their trust in their spouse, but it can destroy their trust in their own judgment and opinions. They question who they are along with their worth.
Not confessing deprives the betrayed spouse of both their pain and their choice. Life hurts, avoiding the hurts of life often leads to even greater pain. I often hear from betrayed spouses that the deception does more damage than the sexual betrayal.

Non-Judgmentalism & Neutrality
Kirshenbaum rationalizes the actions of infidelity.
Her single-sided view leads her either to believe her client's assessments or diagnose the marriages of many cheaters (who were either her clients or the affair partners of her clients) as dead, disappointing, souring... She does not describe most in volatile terms--abusive or high-conflict, just loveless or boring. The betrayed spouse may have a different perception, but if Kirshenbaum's assessments include both sides, she fails to let the reader know.

* Tom's marriage was cold and dead (p. 26).
* John's marriage was souring (p. 37).
* Tommy's wife was a bimbette (p. 56).
* Ellie's marriage lacked fireworks (p. 65).

Good people do bad things. But we all need to accept our sins as sins. Rationalizing them validates and enables the choice to continue sinning. I understand that Kirshenbaum is not intending to encourage infidelity, but unfortunately her validations do that for some. To her, an affair is a coping mechanism, but she fails to directly identify it as a negative coping mechanism, rather it feels as though she sees any coping mechanism as positive simply because it is a way of coping.

Affairs Can Help
Kirshenbaum believes that there is a "hidden wisdom" in having an affair (p. 40). Her idea is that an affair can enable a person to realize that the grass is not greener. She considers the choice to have an affair to be a coping mechanism which is a sort of natural wisdom (p. 41). Radiation or chemotherapy can kill cancer; the problem is that sometimes the specimen is sacrificed for the cure that kills. She fails to acknowledge the dangerous aspect of affairs when mentioning this "hidden wisdom" and instead further validates the choice of infidelity by telling the betrayer that sometimes an affair is the best way for them to get the two things they need: information and change (p. 41).
It is possible to transform one's life and Self through a traumatic experience--putting experience to use. That does not mean the experience itself was beneficial; the benefit or detriment is in the response.
Her view validates infidelity, "sure it's a sin, but I'm helping my marriage so it's worth it."
Kirshenbaum does sometimes state directly that a person needs to end an affair (p. 49, 55). But she dilutes this infrequent message with her affair-validations which are woven throughout the entire text.

Equalizing the Spouse and the Affair Partner
Kirshenbaum draws up a pros and cons list, distilling the comparison to only four dimensions so that like aspects are being compared.
The problem is in the equality; with this method the spouse has no starting advantage over the affair partner for history, commitment, vows... In addition, there needs to be an additional dimension for evaluating the possible consequences of divorce on the family unit. That additional dimension will influence the other four. Step families are particularly vulnerable to dysfunction; a new marriage that began with the betrayal of one parent is even more vulnerable. She does review implications with children later, but that is not included in this structured four-dimensional review.
Also not included is a report on the statistical odds of marriages that start as infidelity. The failure rate of such relationships is extremely high: 87-96%.
[...]

Children & Divorce
Kirshenbaum claims the work of Judith Wallerstein in "The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce" is flawed because a study sample needs a control group for comparison (p.170-171). Wallerstein had the sort of control group Kirshenbaum implied was missing and her conclusions were in line with Kirshenbaum's argument. It is not universally true that children are better off in intact marriages rather than broken marriages. But it is true for more than it is not true. Children from low-conflict marriages are better off if their parents remain married, but children in high-conflict marriages benefit more from divorce. Approximately two-thirds of divorces in the United States are among low-conflict spouses. (Paul R. Amato and Alan Booth, 2001. "Parental Predivorce Relations and Offspring Postdivorce Well-Being," Journal of Marriage and the Family 63(1): 197ff.)

The good intentions and occasional good advice and information are not enough to overcome the dangerous and flaws in the book. Kirshenbaum promotes and encourages avoidance. "Don't confess because it will cause your spouse pain. Don't feel shame and guilt because it will cause you pain." She is so focused on intentions--"I'm good because my intentions are good"--that she glosses over the damage caused by those good intentions--since thinking about the damage would hurt and hurt does no good. Pain is not always bad. As Buddha said, "all life is suffering." It is through adversity that we become stronger and shape our character.
103 of 118 people found the following review helpful
Based on a Faulty Assumption March 31 2010
By Atsenaotie - Published on Amazon.com
Verified Purchase
Some parts of this book are okay, the types of affairs, how people become involved, and what is involved in healing from an affair.

My problem is with the chapters on how a spouse involved in an affair should determine whether to stay with the marriage partner, or leave the marriage for the affair partner. These chapters presume that the affair partner is thinking clearly and rationally. It has been my experience and the experience of many others that this is simply not the case.

An affair is a fantasy relationship built on conditional love. Any conversation topic or activity that would undermine the fantasy is avoided. Add to this the lies the spouse involved in the affair has told him or herself, and others, to rationalize their involvement in the affair. All combined, there is no way in which the person having an affair can accurately asess which partner they are truly happier with, which partner is the "better" partner, or is meeting their needs.

Many participants find their involvement with an affair to be addictive. Until the participants break this addiction and the accompanying rationalizations, there is simply no way for them to make an informed decision about returning to the marriage or leaving it for the affair partner. To do otherwise is akin to having a drug or alcohol addict make decisions on further drug or alcohol use while under the influence.
74 of 85 people found the following review helpful
Help in the nick of time for me May 31 2008
By Jenny Miller - Published on Amazon.com
Format: Hardcover
Four weeks ago I found out my husband had been cheating on me. I was furious. I threw my husband out of the house. But I was devastated. We have three children, and I thought we had a good life. Everything seemed to be over for good. Then my therapist said something amazing. She said, "Look, he did a bad thing, but is he really a bad man?" That stopped me. I thought about our life together. He was a good man. I could always rely on him. My therapist lent me her copy of this book. I think it may have saved my life. I read it in one evening. I saw how my husband really could have been in pain even though he put me in pain.
Most of all, I saw that there were many reasons why people cheat, and most of them DON'T mean that your marriage is over. And I saw what the work was that my husband and I needed to do to put our marriage together. My husband and I have talked almost nonstop for the last two days. It's been pretty intense. But Myra Kirschenbaum's book has given me, given both of us really, the hope and understanding to work at healing our marriage.
This is one of those books that can save your life. I am so grateful for it.

Product Images from Customers

Search


Feedback