Customer Reviews

King Warrior Magician Lover

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From the book: "In order for Man psychology to come into being for any particular man, there needs to be a [symbolic] death....The old ways of being and doing and thinking and feeling must ritually 'die' before the new man can emerge." The above quote certainly begs the question: Why? Why did men need these rituals to fully mature? And seem to continue to need them now? And why do/did women not similarly need rituals to bring them into female maturity? Unfortunately, these obvious questions are never answered.

"The devastating fact is that most men are fixated at an immature level of development." Powerful statement. The very next sentence should elaborate or somehow offer a reason or conjecture. But it does not. So how do they suggest men do this? In the absence of a "meaningful ritual process for initiation," that used to be common to solve the problem, what can men do? Not much to go on. So, while the book asks men to turn their attention to their "infantile grandiosity" and try and grow up, it falls pretty short of solutions.

I guess the authors think that no male archetype includes emotional awareness, bonding response, intimacy, or caring for others, because none of those things is ever mentioned. The Lover, who would most likely express these qualities, is described as "the one who wants us to have an abundance of good things." This is how love is described: "Many men literally live for the thrill of 'falling in love' - that is, falling into the power of the Lover." The ensuing discussion ends up making love sound like a commodity, an experience of the senses rather than the emotions or mind. But never mentioned is the intimacy between people, in fact relationships are not mentioned at all.

Perhaps the archetypes alone are enough to mildly recommend the book. The writing is fine, and there is plenty of mental fodder to chew on.

I have no background in psychology, I am a tradesman. I read KWML about 6 months ago and found it to be the 'how-to' guide to repair and rebuild following a devastating personal loss. The four mature archetypes and their attendant immature 'shadows' were highly illustrative to me. The benevolent King, the courageous and disciplined Warrior, capable and knowledgable Magician, and the connected and loyal Lover all have their place, while the immature archetypes provide a guide for what really needs repair within the psyche. Moore is right: there are a lot of us who are still little boys in many ways. I regard this book quite highly, and will re-read it again after I recover it from the last person I lent it to.. This is one of the pivotal books of my life. It has its flaws, and could be twice its length, and still leave the reader wanting further study. I highly recommend it.

I have no background in psychology, I am a tradesman. I read KWML about 6 months ago and found it to be the 'how-to' guide to repair and rebuild following a devastating personal loss. The four mature archetypes and their attendant immature 'shadows' were highly illustrative to me. The benevolent King, the courageous and disciplined Warrior, capable and knowledgable Magician, and the connected and loyal Lover all have their place, while the immature archetypes provide a guide for what really needs repair within the psyche. Moore is right: there are a lot of us who are still little boys in many ways. I regard this book quite highly, and will re-read it again after I recover it from the last person I lent it to.. This is one of the pivotal books of my life. It has its flaws, and could be twice its length, and still leave the reader wanting further study. I highly recommend it.

I found the most useful section to be Part I, "From Boy Psychology to Man Psychology". In this section, the child archetypes and their "shadow" (i.e. dysfunctional) forms are defined and traced to their manhood analogs. Diagrams and 'flow-charts' neatly outline the archetypal structure and development of the male psyche. Unfortunately, this lucid and insightful beginning is too short, and not followed up well by the payload; part II, "Decoding the Male Psyche", has problems.

We can find any universal pattern or archetype we want by selective sampling, and the authors do exactly that in Part II, especially in their superficial treatment of the Abrahamic religions; hence, important differences are overlooked. I think a more inductive approach would have served the goals of the authors better. Instead of the cursory and somewhat muddled comparative mythology, the authors should have detailed male behavior patterns and motivations more thoroughly *before* examining them in an archetypal context.

The final section attempts to give concrete advice on applying the material presented earlier. "Accessing the Archetypal Powers of the Mature Masculine", though admirable and interesting, is probably too mystical for 'down to earth' types, and definitely too lean. But perhaps that is intentional as this book is an introduction to 5 subsequent lectures that explore the individual archetypes in greater detail.

Despite these shortcomings, I think this is a good book and recommend it; I certainly thank the authors for their insight. But don't look for cohesive argumentation, nor much practical advice. Instead take it as a catalyst for reflection, as the book gives fresh and lucid perspectives on the male psyche for those who are not familiar with Jung.

I find the only major difference between the psychology of most males and females, that we women and girls tend more to suffer from the passive and negative sides of the Shadow, and I would put Feminist in the place of Hero. She possesses great energy, encouragement and empowerment,she mobilizes her motivation, will, wits, energies, and love, for both to attain her goals outside and in overcoming The Weak Princess, The Naive, The Dreamer.She helps the Girl To become the mature Woman.Yet she also has her bipolar Shadow : the FffffemiNIST and the Victim of Bad Chauvinist Men. Yet her main goal is ,like the Hero`s, to prove that she can ``do it``, she only fights for the right to be herself, she merely claims to all what really is her birthright. She is not yet sure as earth in these rights, she is not yet Queen.
Anyone want to discuss? email me.
epp.vasli@mail.ee

I first read this book when it appeared in the early '90s, when the Men's Movement was everywhere (how long ago that seems). I have come back to the book many, many times for guidance and insight, finding relevance in different portions as I have aged, changed jobs, and faced new challenges. There is a reason why this book remains in print: it's an intelligent, clear, and well-grounded examination of the primary facets of men's selves and how men can use this understanding to improve their lives. The authors discuss each of the title's four archetypes in turn, explaining both the positive and negative aspects of each one, and how each can interact with the others. A particular strength is the authors' ability to describe each archetype in a vivid, three-dimensional (yet concise) way that enables you to *see* the archetype at work in yourself and others. I would recommend this book especially for readers who may be turned off by self-help works that are either too simplistic or too mystical. And, as other reviewers have pointed out, much of it would appear to be of interest to women as well as men.

I would highly recommend this book for any man or woman who is interested in Jungian Archetypal personal development work. The book details the history of each of the quadratic archetypes and how it relates to todays world. It explains the immature versus mature stages of the archetypes development in people. It also details the passive and aggressive behavior of these archetypes as manifest in men in our society today. The book came to me as recommended reading for a New Warrior Training Adventure weekend which I participated in. While it may not be an 'easy read' it does provide ample food for thought for the seekers among us.

This is one of the most important books that I have ever purchased. I also read Iron John and feel almost as strong. It's been a year since I read KWML and I go back to it often. Since reading it more than a year ago, I have noticed that I now apply this knowledge, which benefits others around me, as well as myself. I can easily say that it has matured me in dramatic ways, opening pathways, giving me more confidence in my relationships with women on a personal level (the women I've dated) as well as on a professional level (the women I work with, for, etc.). It helps me to identify which men should mentor me and whom I should avoid. On a philisophical level, this brought new challenges in the face of a world unprepared or unwilling for the maturation of men. However, the rewards are great for you and those around you, because I now believe the greatest acheivement of man is his own maturation and I am confident that all your friends and loved ones, secretly cheer you on to that goal - the same way Arthur's kingdom flourished when he drank from the grail. Or perhaps how Christ calmed a raging sea. Seize this pearl.

If you want to understand the underlying philosophy of the men's movement, New Warrior, and related activities, this is the book to read. This book, along with Bly's Iron John, launched the Men's Movement, and is the brains behind the movement--offering a psychology of growth and healing.

....but in a puerarchy ("puer," from the Latin for "boy"): this is a thesis I find extremely useful in understanding why the world is how it is: the scufflings, posturings, threats, hostility, and outright violence are actually the actions of boys pretending to be men. The least useful part of this book is the Jungian theory--archetypes spelled out in crystal-shaped diagrams and so forth. Otherwise good basic reading and useful for men's groups.