Customer Reviews

Fire and Ice: The United States, Canada and the Myth of Converging Values

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What do you get when the co-founder of a political polling company steps back, looks at the numbers, and decides to write a book? You get a fascinating and sometimes counter-intuitive look at the evolution of current "American Values". Mr. Adams' premise is that even before 9/11, Americans were moving further away from a society of Idealism and Fulfillment, and towards Exclusion and Survival.

This is not a ponderous volume of statistics, but a quirky, quick read, that leaves one with a lot to think about.

This book was obviously aimed at the Canadian reader, and I hope he releases a updated version for the American audience when the 2004 figures have been compiled. But you can just skip over some of the Canada-specific references, and the long suffering pose of submission but inherent superiority to the U.S.. It IS enlightening to see the U.S. through Canadian eyes.

There are some interesting insights to George W's presidency, the debate over same sex marriages, and a discussion of the regional differences in the U.S., and implications for the future.

I was surprised to learn that Canada has more in common with New England than New England has in common with the Deep South. And that the cultural trends among young people are very divergent from the 60+ crowd, and not always in the direction I expected.

Not a perfect book. But worth reading.

Adams clearly states in the introduction that this is a book intended for a Canadian audience, however he does 'hope it may be of interest to Americans who may be intrigued by a glimpse of a country so seemingly near and yet with their mental postures far from their own' and adds that 'Europeans, Australians and even the Queen's subjects in Tony Blair's Britain who are ambivalent about American influence on their societies might also find some useful lessons in the Canada-U.S. nexus' (pg 15). As he says 'Canadians may like Americans, speak the same language, and consume more their fast food and popular culture, but we embrace a different hierarchy of values. Moreover, the differences, as I have attempted to show, are increasing rather than decreasing with economic integration' (pg 142).

Fire and Ice came from years of research into the ideals and values held by Canadians from 1983 to 2000, Adam states that he was 'impressed with just how much Canadians' social values seemed to be diverging from those of Americans. (After all, we are frequently made to feel we have become nothing more than unarmed Americans with health insurance.)' (pg xii) - and this is even before September 11th.

He notes being particularly interested in finding out 'why an initially "conservative" society like Canada has ended up producing an autonomous, inner-directed, flexible, tolerant, socially liberal, and spiritually eclectic people while an intentionally "liberal" society like the United States has ended up producing a people who are, relatively speaking, materialistic, outer-directed, intolerant, socially conservative, and deferential to traditional institutional authority. Why do these two societies seem to prove the law of unintended consequences?' (pg 10).

Despite relying heavily on the statistics produced by Environics, the company he co-founded, Adams is able interpret the findings so they're more or less understandable to the layperson. He brings up current events, and there are numerous references to pop culture, everything from Rockstar Games' Vice City, Eminem's 8-Mile, to Blade Runner - however with a decidedly American flavour.

In writing this book Adams offers Canadians a more detailed description of our national identity than the traditional 'not American' retort. In particular, his 'reading of Canadian values tells me that none has become more important in this country than autonomy - and that autonomy, in the context of interdependence, is valued at every level from the individual right up to the nation' (pg 144).

Fire and Ice makes for an entertaining and insightful read into the Canadian and American psyches. However far as his aim to remain impartial goes, he falls somewhat short of the mark. Without slandering America, there is a discernable favouring of Canadian ideals and values - completely understandable as Adams himself is Canadian. Highly recommended reading to sceptical Canadians, Americans interested in viewing themselves through a maple-leaf shaped lens, and, heck, everyone else.

After living in Boston for ten months, I returned to my island home in BC and found this book in my local library. I read it in two days, and now I'm going to get it. It confirmed what I experienced as a Canadian in the States. The States comes across as more diverse than Canada, and in many ways far more conservative. For example, on the question around patriarchy, whether the man should be the head of the household, New England, the most liberal region in the United States, was more conservative than Alberta, Canada's most conservative region. So much for convergence, eh? Also, the growing ease with which Americans accept violence corresponds with what I found.

One reviewer criticised Adams methodology, but if it is so bad, then why is Environics still in business? The reviewer pointed us to David Frum for a detailed critique, but Frum is the former Bush speech writer who gave us the phrase "axis of evil." Adams may have sometimes asked different questions, but this is less comparing apples and oranges than comparing mackintoshs and spartans; the questions are dealing with the same underlying values. This is hot stuff, so don't be surprised if those who have a stake in the myth of converging values will try to attack and spin it as much as possible. And, in any case, have those arguing for the convergence offered anything near as detailed an argument as what Adams has presented?

Anyone who spends any time bouncing back and forth across the border will find their intuitions confirmed by Adams' book. More importantly, it will tell them why, and it will show them some things they missed, but which, after being pointed out, seem obvious. Americans may speak the same language as Canadians, and we may watch much the same TV, the same movies, and read many of the same books -- we may even have Canadians appearing in those TV programs and in those movies, and even ghost-writing for the President -- but make no mistake, Americans are not the same as Canadians, and Canada is much more than the States with universal healthcare. If you don't believe me, go and live there for a bit, and then come back!

It's too bad that this book is not available in the US but easily ships from Canada (check out the author's website). The title should say how the US is drifting to the right while the most of our allies and friends are going the other direction; perhaps that explains the lack of support in Iraq. The Christian Right has a huge influence in this country whereas in Canada and Western Europe church attendance continues to decline. The book explains many interesting trends but the one that sticks out for me is that in the US, 59% of the population feels the man should be head of the household; in Canada that number is in the low teens.

I bought this book because I am an American who just moved to Canada and you can not go into a book shop without having this book prominently displayed. It is everywhere so I figured "when in Rome" and picked up a copy. The book is the detail of the authors studies of the American and Canadian cultures and if they are becoming more similar or growing apart. The author lets the reader know up front two very important things, first that the book is meant for a Canadian audience and secondly that the author is a full time professional sociological researcher.

For the first important point, that the book is meant for a Canadian audience, if you are a thin skinned American then I would not suggest you reading this book. It is not that the author takes any nasty cheap shots at Americans. It is just that he does not sugar coat the differences when they are more negative toward the American side. I could not argue with any of his comments, it was just that he was exposing some of the rather unsightly bits about the US and at times that can be uncomfortable for an American.

The second point I felt was important was that the author is not an author by trade, but basically a researcher. This meant that this book was one of the most difficult to read and unnecessarily dense books I have read in a long time. If the author could have said a sentence in five words he used 25 and used a fair number a words that the common reader has never heard of. If you buy the book keep going through the painful first chapter, the road gets better after about 40 pages but the book is never a walk in the park.

With these criticisms aside I did find parts of the book interesting. It would be good for an American to read these types of books to detail out the differences between the two countries and maybe to show them that all things American are not always the best. It is just that this book is so unfriendly to the reader that I do not think this is the vehicle for wide appeal.

Having lived half my life in Canada, several years in the United States, and the remainder overseas, I feel uniquely positioned to comment on this book. Regardless of whether Adams' methodology is sound - and various reviewers have argued on both sides - his overall hypothesis "feels" right.

Especially in the earlier sections, where he paints with broad strokes, the arguments ring mostly true and his storytelling is compelling, save for a few instances where a natural bias towards presenting Canada as some sort of perfect postmodern utopia leaks through. While every author is entitled to a personal viewpoint, it's mildly discomfiting to see in a book that is, for all intents and purposes, the product of a quantitative polling company.

But my biggest issue with Fire and Ice comes in its later pages, when Adams pulls down into a more micro level of analysis. At this level, many of his conclusions feel forced, as though he felt pressure to interpolate stories from data best used to illustrate the big picture. The net result is a book that seems to slip from captivating theory into stereotyping.

The compelling hypothesis makes for a fast, fun read, but it's ultimately unsatisfying. Try it in concert with a more personal, qualitative look at our two cultures, such as "The Border" by James Laxer.

I enjoyed this book a lot. It quantified in numerous ways the subtle but important differences in the values and beliefs of people from two countries who are often seen as "the same" from those abroad. Pulling on social and historical references, Adams paints an effective picture of why we are the way we are. This is a great book for any student of the social sciences, and especially for anyone interested in marketing and understanding why American creative sometimes just doesn't fly with a Canadian audience. Of course, it seems the only people who really care to define themselves as being different from the others ones are Canadian, so many Americans will likely fail to identify with the purpose of even writing the book in the first place. I teach marketing courses at the undergrad and graduate level. I have encouraged my students, particularly foreign students, to read this book, if they want to understand the subtle differences between the two countries and to be able to use those insights in their marketing efforts.

I used to work the phones conducting public opinion surveys - I've seen this bunk before. Questions craftily worded to get the results you want. Or another classic - misreporting the true meaning of statistics. Ask the following question: "Do you approve of a new toxic waste site near your home?" and you get very low approval. But if you word it "Do you approve of a toxic waste site near your home if it creates 1000 jobs?" you get very different results. This book has it all. Check out the review by David Frum at NRO online. Frum is a former National Post columnist now occasional contributor to National Review Online. He makes the following observations: "If you want to compare the answers of two different groups of people, you have to ask them the same questions...Yet a reader has to trudge all the way to the very back of the book to discover that Adams did no such thing". Even the author admits that "only about half" of the questions in his Canadian and U.S. surveys are the same.

Save your money, check it out in a library if you must.

This book is total garbage and perpetuates ridiculous stereotypes without any real research included to back up his points. I am not sure that Mr. Adams even tried to understand the differences between the U.S. and Canada. After finishing the book, I found myself wondering if he even remotely understands America. The poor quality of his arguments probably explains why this book has not been picked up by an American publisher. It seems like Mr. Adams took cues south of the border from Ann Coulter and just wrote something propagandistic that would sell. The irony in the whole thing is that he tries to make the point that Canadians are more tolerant than Americans while producing a book filled with intolerant generalizations. For example, American fathers are more likely to disown their gay sons than Canadian fathers. He has no statistical or polling data to back this up. I guess his precious little polls couldn't work to his advantage in this case. How this book won the Donner Prize is beyond me... it should have won "Most Likely to End up in the Yard Sale Pile."

As an American who married a Canadian, I've become quite a student of the Canadian-American relationship. Many of my Canadian relatives urged me to buy this book, telling me: "if you want to know the difference between the two countries, then buy this book." I was forced to bite my tongue to keep from saying "the real difference between Canadians and Americans is that Americans do not care what the difference is between Canadians and Americans." This and many other obvious facts are completely ignored in this book, in which the author, spurred on by the desperate Canadian proto-nationalism that has anti-Americanism as its only coherent bedrock, sets out to prove the thesis that "Canadians are more moral and thus better than Americans" and does not let inconvenient things like facts or logic get in the way. As an example, the statistic that Canadians purchase mini-vans more often then expensive SUVs is baldly noted as an indication that Candians have more concern for the environment than Americans. What the author fails to note is that SUVs cost more than mini-vans and average disposable income in Canada is significantly lower than in United States. The notion that mini-vans, themselves horrendous gas-guzzlers when compared to smaller vehicles, are somehow environmentally friendly is also laughable. Also ignored is the fact that these supposedly environmentally friendly Canadians, who signed Kyoto, have been far more profligate in allowing their greenhouse emissions to grow at an unchecked rate while the big, bad United States has significantly cut greenhouse emissions while maintaining its refusal to sign Kyoto as a useless gesture since it did not apply to two of the largest polluters in the world (China and India). Some Canadians will no doubt find this book helpful in giving them further ammunition to conclude that they are somehow more moral and thus better than Americans while ignoring the fundamental truths, not the least of which is that this is a debate that exists on only one side of the border.