Customer Reviews

When We Were Kings

5 star:		(53)
4 star:		(6)
3 star:		(3)
2 star:		(1)
1 star:		(2)

 

 

The thing that leaped out at me:
1) BB King's singing and playing guitar in 1974 in Africa was at the top of his game.
2) Norman Mailer's analysis and insight when interviewed 1974 is like a sample from his book, "Fight", which is now featured, in part, on Muhammad Ali's web site now.
3) Ali seemed like a smartalec to me in 1974, but now in 2004 looking at the old footage of him talking, he seems charismatic and funny .If you want lots of Rumble in the Jungle fight footage, this is not the DVD for you, but if you want insight in to the event and what contributed to Ali's upset of Foreman, this is a must have.

My DVD, bought in England, contains as extras the full-length footage, round by round, of both the Rumble and the Thrilla, with English commentary by David Frost among others. I have to agree with those reviewers who have pointed out that WWWK badly misrepresents the fight. The simple truth is that Ali won every round of the Rumble. He was right on top of Foreman from the outset, and the clever editing and dramatic spin put on the match by Norman Mailer is just so much fiction. Foreman looked like he'd swallowed some substance which was the opposite of speed: as Joe Frazier said in the live commentary, he was missing with empty air-swings and "boxing foolish". After two rounds, which was about as far as he'd needed to go in previous fights, he ran out of wind. He still tried to use Ali's body as a punch-bag, more and more feebly, while Ali was picking off blow after blow to Foreman's head as if it was a standing punch-ball. Ali certainly threw a head-punch with shattering speed. He rolled around on the ropes a lot of the time, but for the rest he ducked away and danced around grinning fit to bust, mocking Foreman with his mouth and winking to the crowd. He was in much better physical shape, superbly fit, and he boxed an extremely smart strategy in the local conditions. WWWK is still a great film, however, full of interesting comment on the politics and hoop-la of the event: but it's marred by its fake telling of the fight. Ali is presented in all his glorious charismatic uppity persona, a magnificent physical presence, funny and clever, the epitome of boxing skill. I could have done without a lot of the music etc, but it seems this was part of the original reason for making the film. Four stars for WWWK, five stars for this DVD because it has the real thing as an extra feature.

This fight was one of the first distinct memories of my childhood. The damn thing took forever to come on TV (my father and his friends had gotten it on closed circuit in Germany) and I fell asleep at least once waiting for the fighters to finally make it into the ring. I was too young to understand everything that went on in the leadup to the "event" (and that's what it was) and I was absolutely delighted to learn that this film was going to be released so I could catch up.

And it is a truly great film. It is a great film because it documents a great time in American and African history and because the things it documents are inherently dramatic and exciting. That said, this is also a terrific film from a filmmaking point of view; wonderful camera work, in your face documenting, and intelligent editing. It's not as "artsy" as Leni Riefenstahl's classic documentation of the 1936 Berlin Olympics, but that event had a totally different cultural and historical context.

As a sport film, this movie is also important because it documents one of the greatest fights of all time; Ali correctly noted after the fight that his rope-a-dope strategy would go down in the annals of boxing.

All in all a wonderfully entertaining, informative, and inspiring way to spend about 90 minutes of your time.

As a piece of archival footage this film can't be beat, as it captures the chaos and pageantry that surrounded the Ali-Foreman fight in 1974. Ali never looked so great as he did in the build up to this fight. He was in prime form, even if a heavy underdog to the massive George Foreman. Leon Gast captures Ali in all his crazy kinetic glory, boasting proudly of how he would dance, and Foreman wouldn't lay a glove on him. Gast also focuses on Don King who in typical fashion played both ends of the stick, promoting both fighters and coming up with a $10 million purse thanks to Mobutu Sese Seko, Zaire's ruthless dictator, who saw a potential windfall for the country in the international attention this fight would generate. As Ali noted, some nations go to war to get attention and this fight will cost a lot less than a war. What we got was the famous "Rumble in the Jungle."

Unfortunately, this film doesn't go very deep in analyzing the fight, and gives the fight itself surprisingly short shrift. All we get are a handful of truncated rounds and the final blow delivered by Ali. But, what this film does provide is the pageant that surrounded the fight along with engaging commentary by Norman Mailler, who evocatively captured the spectacle in "The Fight," George Plimpton, Thomas Hauser, who has written the definitive biography on Ali, and Spike Lee. Mailler is the most fun to listen to, as he lived and breathed the fight and gives some of the most trenchant comments on it, but he too seemed mystified at how Ali pulled it off, chalking it up to the "trembling woman" who supposedly sucked the life out of Foreman.

George Foreman seemed invincible, having torn apart Joe Frazier and Ken Norton, but he simply wasn't prepared to deal with someone of Ali's caliber, or the massive publicity this fight generated. Foreman was also shocked to be so poorly received in Africa, where Ali was King. Foreman seemed out of place in Kinshasha, never able to find his footing or able to deal with a crafty fighter like Ali, who came up with his famous "rope-a-dope" that evening. Foreman simply punched himself out and had nothing left after seven rounds. It was then that Ali worked his magic and proved to the world that he was indeed the greatest, staging one of the most astonishing comebacks in sports history.

"Ali Boom Bay Yea" the crowd chanted as Ali fought himself off the ropes and pummeled Foreman with an array of blows that had him tumbling to the mat. Ali never had another moment like this, although he would successfully defend his title 10 times before his ignominous defeat to Leon Spinks in 1978, only to regain it for the third time that year. This film does more than any other at capturing Ali in top form, with all his remarkable charisma and incredible talent.

As a little ol' white girl, about 10 or 11, I listened to a "fight" on the radio one night. How I came to be interested in it is beyond me, but I remember being alone in the house. As I sat there listening, the commentator became so excited describing the action that I couldn't help but get caught up in the moment. And then he won! All the sudden I hear, "I Am The Greatest! I Am The Greatest!" I could hear the pandemonium in the background, but his voice rang out, proud and sassy, over and above it. Cassius Clay was the new Heavyweight Champion! Whatever that is. Hey - I wasn't that old! Only later did I realize how momentous this bout was in the annals of sports.

Flash forward 40 years. I would hear about the latest news of Muhammad Ali on occasion and I never missed an opportunity to watch him on TV. He was so brash and funny in the way he talked, but so formidable when he stepped into the ring. I would always think back to that night. The sport of boxing is so far removed from my life that when I speak of him, my admiration and opinions are generally dismissed as "something this woman could know nothing about". But you see, they're wrong. Ali reaches through to those you would least expect. That is the magic of his spirit. But try to explain that to somebody. When I saw this film the first time I smiled all the way through it. I knew I had the means to finally communicate the joy in discovering this athlete's allure - the humor, the boldness, the grace and the strength. I recommend this film to all my friends and family or to anyone I talk to about Muhammad Ali. It captures a moment in history. There's music and mayhem and so much energy - it feels like you're there! The interviews and commentary of those who reminisce on the event adds depth to the story of how it all transpired. The momentum builds as the fight begins with Foreman and the magnitude of their efforts is astounding. If you've never seen him box or heard him pontificate - as only he can - you are in for a treat! Bask in the glory of this film. And thank God we have it for posterity.

For an incisive look at the Man of the Century, this sliver of time captures Ali at his apogee, at the juncture where all the forces he harnessed were unleashed. Black Power, an American black touching his real African roots, Ali's brilliant
psychological undressing and giantkilling of the foreboding young Foreman, the slave finally freed from the consequences of his conscientious objection giving one of the purest boxing lessons, all the crazy post-60s characters -- Bundini Brown, Don King, Howard Cosell, the writers Mailer and Plimpton. Just as touching, before the Thrilla in Manila, some of the last footage of the lightning quick mouth, mind, feet and hands of Ali before he became the shambling icon of a cuddly old man with shaky Parksinsons hands lighting the Olympic torch in Atlanta and making us all hold our breath that he would light himself on fire.

Wow.

Timothy Carlson
Boulder CO

You're watching some incredible interviews, rare and great footage, learning a bit about the Africa of 1974 and grooving to the music. Getting swept up in the excitement of what this is all about...

About an hour goes by and just when you start to forget why this all taking place you see these two in the ring together and as they engage each other, stand toe to toe in the center of the ring it hits you. Hits you hard.

These are two legends of the ring. These are two giants that walk among us and THIS...this is the fight...THE FIGHT that forever will be part of boxing history, boxing lore and boxing mythology. That outside the ring and the world of boxing this is something that will be part of forever. The enormity of the moment is almost overwhelming...

The movie itself is somewhat dated as far as film making goes. Get ready to travel back to the mid '70's / early '80s. It's like a "Behind The Music" (VH1) before there was a "Behind The Music" and of course it's about the fight that took place in Zaire between George Forman and Muhammad Ali. "The Rumble in the Jungle".

If you can check out Muhammad Ali - The Whole Story for more complete footage of the actual fight (and THE best Muhammad Ali DVD/VHS around). Muhammad in reality does a lot better than we are all led to believe hearing the story of the Rumble in the Jungle. He in fact holds his own and you see why the fight wasn't stopped or why you always hear how close it actually was.

When Were Kings is a terrific film. As a Muhammad Ali fan it's a must for my collection. No question. Just for the footage of the two of them in the middle of the ring pre-bell. The stare down. THAT moment alone is worth the price of admision. If you're an Ali fan you need this.

As a boxing enthusiast it's great to see Thomas Hauser, George Plimpton and Norman Mailer. It's always so fun to see George Forman in his previous persona and seeing a young Don King and Bundini Brown and the others (too many to name here) and of course to see and hear Muhammad Ali!

You're watching some incredible interviews, rare and great footage, learning a bit about the Africa of 1974 and grooving to the music. Getting swept up in the excitement of what this is all about...

About an hour goes by and just when you start to forget why this all taking place you see these two in the ring together and as they engage each other, stand toe to toe in the center of the ring it hits you. Hits you hard.

These are two legends of the ring. These are two giants that walk among us and THIS...this is the fight...THE FIGHT that forever will be part of boxing history, boxing lore and boxing mythology. That outside the ring and the world of boxing this is something that will be part of forever. The enormity of the moment is almost overwhelming...

The movie itself is somewhat dated as far as film making goes. Get ready to travel back to the mid '70's / early '80s. It's like a "Behind The Music" (VH1) before there was a "Behind The Music" and of course it's about the fight that took place in Zaire between George Forman and Muhammad Ali. "The Rumble in the Jungle".

If you can check out Muhammad Ali - The Whole Story for more complete footage of the actual fight (and THE best Muhammad Ali DVD/VHS around). Muhammad in reality does a lot better than we are all led to believe hearing the story of the Rumble in the Jungle. He in fact holds his own and you see why the fight wasn't stopped or why you always hear how close it actually was.

When Were Kings is a terrific film. As a Muhammad Ali fan it's a must for my collection. No question. Just for the footage of the two of them in the middle of the ring pre-bell. The stare down. THAT moment alone is worth the price of admision. If you're an Ali fan you need this.

As a boxing enthusiast it's great to see Thomas Hauser, George Plimpton and Norman Mailer. It's always so fun to see George Forman in his previous persona and seeing a young Don King and Bundini Brown and the others (too many to name here) and of course to see and hear Muhammad Ali!

Whether you're a Muhammad Ali fan or not doesn't matter; what matters here is how well the documentary has been assembled, and in actual fact, it deserved any and all recognition it received at the time of its eventual release and even today.

As documentaries go, it's never less than thoroughly entertaining, with great commentary from Norman Mailer and George Plimpton, and great performance footage of James Brown and BB King.

Far superior than Michael Mann's flawed "Ali" biopic. There's no re-enactment of fight footage that can replace the real thing.

Leon Gast's documentary about the legendary Ali-Foreman fight works on all advertised levels. It is a fascinating snapshot of central Africa in the mid-1970s and a glimpse of Muhammad Ali at the peak of his charisma. The blow-by-blow account of the match is riveting even for people who could care less about boxing. Beneath its colorful exterior, however, lurks a disturbing political subtext that reveals how deeply cynical American attitudes towards Africa can be, even when those attitudes are held by African Americans.

When the "Rumble in the Jungle" promoters traveled to Zaire in 1974, they were entering one of the worst disaster zones in post-colonial Africa. Fourteen years earlier, Joseph Mobutu had seized power after torturing and murdering Patrice Lumumba, the leader of the nationalist movement and Zaire's first Prime Minister. He did so with the help of the CIA, who had fingered Lumumba as a potential troublemaker. Mobutu's government (which lasted until his overthrow in 1997) was brutally repressive when it bothered to govern at all. Even by the standards of African strongmen, Mobutu was a monster, and this was as clear in 1974 as it is today. Yet almost no one in "When We Were Kings", either the subjects of the documentary or present-day commentators, has anything to say about it. The fact that Mobutu was a dictator is mentioned only is passing, and is quickly shrugged off. He was an African leader, seems to be the attitude. They're all dictators. What do you expect? Then it's on to Ali's inspired riffing for the press and the inner workings of the rope-a-dope.

If Gast's film were only about boxing, its cynicism might just be bearable. After all, no one pictures Don King losing sleep over geopolitical niceties. But "When We Were Kings" also has a political agenda. It wants to depict a heady moment in the Black Power movement when African American luminaries traveled to Africa to express solidarity for the people of that continent. For the Americans in the movie, the trip to Africa was a profound exploration of their heritage and identity. We see Ali moved by the experience and don't doubt that he's sincere. It's just not clear what the Africans got out of the deal. They seem mostly just props in the first worlders' journey of self-discovery. In one of the movie's few interviews with an African, a man recalls how Ali's visit was a bright spot in the lives of many of his countrymen, who were generally having a hard time of it. That's about the best "When We Were Kings" can do by way of justification. Given the circumstances, this silence is galling. Maybe Ali could have come up with a clever rhyme for "let them eat cake."

Of course, it's a fact that many post-colonial governments were and are dictatorships, and Africa got more than its fair share. A certain degree of cynicism about third-world politics is realistic. But when the subject is Africa, a whole other level of cynicism comes into play: not only do you accept injustice; you don't even have to rationalize your acceptance. There's no way back in 1974 a left-wing Chilean-American boxer would have taken part in a title bout staged by Augusto Pinochet. Nor would Muhammad Ali have fought in the U.S. in a match bankrolled by a black gangster with known ties to white supremacists. So why does Mobutu's dog-and-pony show get a pass? The culprit appears to be the need on the part of the African Americans in the movie to romanticize Africa. (Tellingly, almost no one says the word "Zaire.") In one scene, Muhammad Ali stands in the cockpit of an African airliner. He expresses amazement at the fact that blacks can fly a jet plane, then amazement at himself for having ever thought otherwise. It's a powerful moment. You can see how a black man like Ali would crave an idealized image of Africa to serve as armor against the insidiousness of racism back home. Unfortunately, idealization comes at the price of ignoring a continent's worth of reality. In order to raise your fist, you have to close your eyes.

In his scathing criticism of "Heart of Darkness", the Nigerian novelist Chinua Achebe accuses Joseph Conrad of a particular sort of racism. What bothered him was the way that Conrad used an entire continent and its people as nothing more than a foil for European introspection: "Africa as setting and backdrop which eliminates the African as human factor." "When We Were Kings" is about as far from racist as a movie can get, but it still falls into Conrad's trap. Here the backdrop is a romantic notion of an African motherland, and the human factor is the reality of the brutally oppressive Mobutu regime. Gast may have gone all the way to Africa to get his footage, but the mindset of his film never left home.