4 of 4 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars the beauty is in the sound
In a way, the remastering seems like a marketing ploy to make more money, to promote the second leg of their national tour (it amazes me that they could still be touring- it's like trying to imagine my parents running around the country from city to city playing rock music every night. I can't.).
Yet, I think it's also an effort to present the music to their fans...
Published on June 1 2004 by Ishtar
2 of 2 people found the following review helpful
2.0 out of 5 stars Go for the 33 rpm pressing
When this was announced it was hyped as the ultimate version of Rumours. Limited to 4000 copies, I jumped and preordered it. Then I started hearing about 2 versions. One mastered by Hoffman and Gray and pressed at Pallas an the other a Czech pressing with no mastering credit. When I received it I did not see any mastering credit but I kept an open mind hoping it would be...
Published on May 28 2011 by G. Walsh
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4 of 4 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars the beauty is in the sound,
This review is from: Rumours (Audio CD)In a way, the remastering seems like a marketing ploy to make more money, to promote the second leg of their national tour (it amazes me that they could still be touring- it's like trying to imagine my parents running around the country from city to city playing rock music every night. I can't.).
Yet, I think it's also an effort to present the music to their fans on CD as it was originally recorded. The pre-existing CD versions are definitely sub-optimal- the transfer from the analog recording is flat and smoothed over. When I heard Rumours remastered, I almost started crying- in fact, I might have. It was clear and vibrant, the vocals had so much more depth, and the instruments stand out from one other- and the singing rises from the music rather than being plastered to it. This is the way it was meant to be listened to. This is the reason Fleetwood Mac is a blues/folk/*rock*- and not pop- band. I can hear vocals and sounds that I never ever heard before- it's just so intense. Definitely worth it
33 of 41 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars "EU" Pressing Review,
This review is from: Rumours (2lp) (180 Gram Vinyl) (LP Record)I bought this hoping for the much discussed "Hoffman/Gray" mastering, and it turned out to be the "other" cut that people seem to be dismissing for no apparent reason other than assuming it won't be any good if Hoffman didn't master it.
Instead of just returning it, I decided to take it for a spin ...
I found it to be simply astonishing. Fantastic, warm sound. Superb bass. Nice, balanced top end. As a comparison, I used the German Warner CD (which lacks the top end boost of the so-called "secret remaster" done in the US) and found this vinyl to be absolutely superior in every way. I know there are apparently other CD masterings, but compared to the one I have (which is supposedly pretty good), this reissue set makes it sound like tin.
I attempted to post positive comments about this reissue at the Hoffman site, and mentioned that I look forward to comparing it to the US issue, but they were deleted. Why it would be necessary to delete comments about this cut is something which eludes me. Whatever the reasoning, I suggest that you not *assume* just because Hoffman touches something it renders any and all other versions irrelevant. If you get this pressing, take it for a spin and judge for yourself.
I have seen some speculation as to the source of this reissue, but nothing concrete. I will update when I have had a chance to compare it to the Hoffman/Gray reissue, but I think this will be tough to beat. No matter what the source, this sounds like somebody either knew what they were doing or left well enough alone, as it is a very impressive reissue.
UPDATE: I have just received the Hoffman/Gray version. To my ears, it is inferior to the "EU" release and has too much EQ. Via his website, Hoffman has covered the EQ moves he made on his version, so perhaps it should come as no surprise, but to my ears the "EU" pressing sounds much more natural and balanced. There is an added "air" on the Hoffman version that seems unnecessary. When I listen to the "EU" version, I far prefer the overall balance to the top end. Despite the quality of equipment Hoffman uses and the fact that his analog EQ gets a really sweet sound, I just can't hear how it was necessary to use as much EQ as he did on this. If the "EU" mastering is anything to judge the master tapes by, I don't hear that they needed it.
If you tend to be a listener that complains of wanting "detail" or often needs a "blanket lifted from your speakers," then the Hoffman version will probably be a gem for you. After all, this stuff is all down to taste. For me, it just doesn't sound as warm and some elements of the mix really end up sounding a bit tweaked. It has a "sparkle" to it that is attractive, but right from the harmonic fills on acoustic guitar that Buckingham throws in on "Second Hand News," it really seems to suffer from a little "mastering engineer and his EQ" saturation. The acoustic guitar borders on "tinny."
The Hoffman/Gray version is nice and certainly admirable work, but the "EU" pressing makes me feel like I am hearing a sound that is closer to the master tape. And based on the "EU" vinyl, I am just not hearing why all the EQ that Hoffman has discussed using was necessary.
Whether the "EU" version was cut "flat" with no mastering or just done by somebody with a different ear for this album, I don't know ... but I prefer it to the Hoffman/Gray cut. I'm inclined tho think that if one simply reversed the EQ moves that Hoffman noted he used on this album, you'd probably end up with a sound that was at least a bit closer to tonality of the "EU" pressing, though I recognize that the sources may have differed as well as the masterings.
While I admire much of the work I have heard from Hoffman through the years and find most of his beliefs as regards music mastering to be aligned with my own, the only "agenda" at play here is to provide a fair review of this reissue. Many will surely love the work Hoffman has done on the US version and I can certainly appreciate that viewpoint. I have followed the entire saga of this reissue that traces back several years and I absolutely think he and Kevin Gray did their best to provide a quality product. Where we appear to differ is in the viewpoint that one has an "agenda" if he feels it fair to simply review and compare. And in a situation such as this, where there is a concurrent mastering and the US 2LP 45RPM set appears to have sold out its limited run anyhow, one would think that the music should come first. Hence, I can assure all that my comments on this reissue are offered with the utmost fairness, convey only my own opinion and relate only to my own system. I don't even know *who* to credit with the mastering of the "EU" pressing. What I do know is that for my taste, it sounds more relaxed in the highs and offers an excellent sonic picture of an album I love dearly. Personally, I see no reason not to own both versions, but reviews of the "EU" pressing have their place, too. I have tried to provide that. Certainly there will be many who hear it differently. I've been a member of the Hoffman forum for nearly a decade, and have always prided myself on specific comparisons and actual descriptions of tonalities, dynamics and so forth.
What bothers me in this situation is the level to which some people are willing to assume that Hoffman and only Hoffman can master something correctly. It's as if his ears are their ears. That is simply groupthink stuff on a level to which I cannot subscribe. People returning albums unopened, presuming things about the sound, making assumptions about the source, my positive comments being deleted from Hoffman's site ...
Why can't there be room for two great reissues? Why can't people simply choose their preferred listening option? Or at least be able to read about the differences ...
I hope that for some, I've provided a description of the differences. If you like Hoffman's work, you'll surely find much to like in his version, but slamming the "EU" reissue solely because it was mastered by someone other than Hoffman is logic I cannot follow.
1 of 1 people found the following review helpful
5.0 out of 5 stars Bought it for the live disc but delighted by the sound,
This review is from: Rumours (Deluxe 3 CD) (Audio CD)From what I can tell in my web searcing, this remaster is the same as the 2004 one. That may answer any questions owners of that release have. As I don't have that release, I was surprisingly delighted by the sound of disc 1, the studio release with 'Silver Springs' moved to position #12 to close the album.
Silver Springs is for me the best song Stevie Nicks has ever done and of all the 'Rumours' lyrics about the personal lives of the band at the time, SS goes deepest and most beautfully.
"I'll follow you down 'til the sound of my voice will haunt you.
You'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you."
I wonder what it is like for her to still sing those lines? And for Lindsey to hear them?
Leaving it off the original album is a travesty for me that is only corrected in the 2004 set, the DVD-A, the live "The Dance" and now this 2013 series that restores it. There is no leaving it off anymore!
Normally I prefer vinyl and I do have the latest greatest repress of this iconic Fleetwood Mac album. Sadly, there is no vinyl version of 'Rumours' that has 'Silver Springs' included. A shame that it didn't fit the 45 rpm re-release. So, I give this 3 cd box a '5 surprising stars' because I bought it mostly for the 1977 live disc as well as having a copy of Rumours that has the beautiful 'Silver Springs' integrated in the studio disc and those 2 discs at this price are great value.
If this is in fact the same remaster as 2004, they were wise not to tinker further. When I hear things for the first time in a familiar recording, I know something has been done very well. Case in point, 'Oh Daddy' has a big gong from Mick Fleetwood that I have never picked out before. This was a very well recorded album but it sparkles with the remastering for cd. 'Go Your Own Way' is clearer sounding, 'Songbird' sounds more sweetly fragile, not as distant as it originally did and 'Dreams' has a vibe that transcends the repetitive bass line and better reveals how rock solid the Fleetwood/McVie rhythm section was, one of the best combinations ever in Classic Rock!
As mentioned, the original running order is restored with SS added at the end. Too bad there wasn't more of a sense of adventure in this packaging. There have been enough versions of the 11 song version - imagine a version of 'Rumours' where SS was placed between Lyndsey's attacking 'Go Your Own Way', SS as Stevie's response and 'The Chain' as the bond that must not be broken? The album could close with 'Songbird' as the last track following the fury of 'Gold Dust Woman'. That would be a better, more powerful album I think and while I am not a fan of tampering with the past, this would have been the exception and it would have been worth it! It even could have been a separate, additonal disc called 'The Alternate Rumours'! (For example, see the new deluxe version of the first ELP album where there is a second disc with a remix and different track order, bonus tracks included in an 'Alternate' version.)
However, I will be very happy with this set. Disc two is an excellent concert that captures the band in fine form, even if still a little fresh as a live band. I was never that impressed with the 1980 'Live' though it had some interesting selections. Even a gem like 'Station Man' that the band played with Buckingham and Nicks in it would have been a great nod to the past, not unlike 'Oh Well' on the 'Live' recording. The best Mac live album remains 'The Dance' but this 1977 concert is a great addition to remembering the Rumours era which is the spirit of this 2013 batch of releases.
Disc 3 is a mixed bag with a few great moments for completists while managing not to be a total copy of the bonus disc of 2004. Do you need this version if you have the 2004? Probably not unless you are an aforementioned completist.
The real story here for me comes down to:
1. improved sound - as good as any version of Rumours I have ever heard.
2. Silver Springs being a part of Rumours again which now makes it permanent I say!
3. a great document of the touring Mac of the day
I will play this cd more than the most recent vinyl, simply to have Silver Springs included without any loss of audio quality. At the price it is going for, this 3 disc set is a bargain.
P.S. After writing this review I bought the bonus tracks from the 2004 remaster and combining with this edition, I have created my own "Alternate Rumours" playlist. Great fun, highly recommend you make your own.
Here is mine. It has a very different feel than the studio, a little darker and in some ways more true to the personal challenges documented by the band, especially with the 'demo' of 'The Chain' being SO different.
BTW, I may have cheated by adding the last 3 tracks from "Live" but it is just too much fun not to have those 3 rarely heard Mac tracks on this disc. 'Farmer's Daughter' is another one of the Mac's hidden gems!
An 'Alternate Rumours' playlist:
Legend of sources - A: 2004 edition bonus disc. B: 2013 bonus disc #3. C: Fleetwood Mac Live 1980.
1. Second Hand News (A)
2. Never Going Back (B)
3. Planets of the Universe (A)
4. Don't Stop (A)
5. Go Your Own Way (A)
6. Silver Springs (B)
7. The Chain (B)
8. You Make Loving Fun (A)
9. Doesn't Anything Last (A)
10. Oh Daddy (A)
11. Gold Dust Woman #1 (A)
12. Songbird (A)
My 'bonus tracks' - all from (C)
14. Don't Let Me Down Again (live)
15. Farmer's Daughter
14 of 18 people found the following review helpful
4.0 out of 5 stars I would have to agree....,
This review is from: Rumours (2lp) (180 Gram Vinyl) (LP Record)Your 'deleted' posts from the Hoffman site is very troublesome. I read his 'take' on this/your post and he said that you have an agenda/BUT....and I say But.... his moderators of his site DELETED your honest review of this disc?? That Action Alone Speaks for itself! So WHO has the agenda Here? I perused the Hoffman site for days trying to find ONE Listener who had the EU copy and gave their analysis, but I came up with only one reference to someone who said it was 'Dull' etc...... Hmmmm
Again, who has the agenda here?? I copped Steve at giving hell to a poster who was just asking a question trying to cut through the clutter of the thread, and just wanted to know some TRUTH, and my post also, was immediately deleted and not posted. Hmmmmm. Very Uncool if you ask me, but then again, I guess I didn't 'fit' into the Hoffman Click. But that being said, it's still cool that they did a 45 rpm version of this. All the controversy aside, it's only rock n roll in't it?? LOL. The Lemmings need to take a chill and open their minds to differing opinions, if they don't then......doesn't that lead us to Closed Mindedness?? And that's not a good thing.
So now, I look forward to the EU version AND the Hoffman version i've got coming in the next few days. And Unlike the UpTurned Noses on that site, I will, as one guy who digs Rock And Roll, will give my HONEST opinion without you schmucks squelching my opinion. You all SHOULD be ashamed of yourselves. John Lennon would kick all of your butts!
Well, after listening to both versions, I can now confirm J.Carney's observations.....
The Hoffman version is much more 'In Your Face', if that is what your trying to get.
The EU, which is NOT pressed at Pallas, and I don't know who pressed it but my copy
is absolutely Flat, Not pressed off-center, and is one of the Most Quite Vinyl pressings
I own, sounds wonderful. It sucks you in with a rich warmth that the Hoffman version
doesn't really have. They both have Great Fidelity, but again, do you like Red Wine or
White?? It really is a matter of personal taste. Oh, and by the way, the Packaging is Excellent!
Very, and I mean VERY heavy stock paper used on the cover and the lp's come with rice paper
inners, unlike the 33rpm version that I got which is NOT 180 gram, it's just a regular lp and
it has Alot of pops and clicks all over it, which takes away, especially on the quiet songs, from
enjoyment of the music. And that version just comes in the cheap paper sleeve that if your not
careful, will scratch the record. So, I'm glad I've got them both. And I like them both, but if you
can't get the Hoffman 45 version, I really can't see anyone being bummed out by the fidelity of
the EU import version. I've gone back and forth between the Hoffman LP and the EU 45 and for
sheer 'Smoothness' and Inclusion, I would have to pick the EU 45rpm version.
5.0 out of 5 stars Re: Fleetwood Mac's Rumours redux,
This review is from: Rumours (Deluxe 3 CD) (Audio CD)One of rock's masterpieces sounds better than ever. I love the live stuff from that era as it sounds so fresh as compared to "The Dance". The practice sessions are a nice touch. Well worth the money.
5.0 out of 5 stars Best Album Ever,
5.0 out of 5 stars Probably their best and well-known music,
4.0 out of 5 stars Very enjoyable !,
5.0 out of 5 stars Better demos than the 2004 edition, and a great live CD,
This review is from: Rumours (Deluxe 3 CD) (Audio CD)Everything's already been said about Fleetwood Mac's « Rumours »: the partying, the fights, the torn romances, the intra-band affairs, the drug abuse... Even the music itself has been discussed in quite a few books and in many interviews by the band itself and by select members of their entourage; it has also been remastered a few times, most notably on Rhino's 2004 edition (which featured an entire CD of demos, unreleased cuts and alternative takes). Given all of this, even a diehard Fleetwood Mac fan such as myself has a right to be wary about this 35th anniversary edition of the band's classic album - and let's face it, the diehards are the ones targeted here. However, as skeptical as I was, I have to admit that this deluxe edition has turned out to be a mouth-watering gem.
Asides from the album itself - a classic in every sense of the word -, the two bonus CDs are the real deal here. First comes a live CD featuring twelve live performances culled during the "Rumours" tour; it's especially nice to have official live versions of "Gold Dust Woman", "Songbird" and "Oh Daddy". The other bonus CD, which features demos and outtakes from the "Rumours" sessions, is the most fascinating of them all. Whereas most of the demos of the 2004 edition often sounded like the final versions, what you get here are mostly work-in-progress polaroids of the songs' early beginnings, striking in their emotional authenticity and stark intimacy. Christine McVie's "Songbird" and "Oh daddy" feature slightly different melodies and lyrics, while Stevie Nicks' "Dreams" is presented in an etheral, keyboard-driven format. Best of all, we finally get to hear how "The Chain" was pieced together from different songs, mostly from Christine McVie's "Keep Me There" (which formed the song's musical basis, including the classic John McVie bass line and Lindsey Buckingham's soaring guitar solo), and a Stevie Nicks demo also called "The Chain", which provided the finished song's legendary chorus. Although a snippet of "Keep Me There" was included on the 2004 edition, we finally get the entire demo here (ditto for the piano and vocal demo of Stevie's "Planets of the Universe").
The more casual fans won't necessarily need this amazing set, but the diehards would be wise not to let this baby go its own way.
5.0 out of 5 stars Rumors box set,
This review is from: Rumours (Super Deluxe Box) (Audio CD)great value and very well done. The album inclusion is a great deal as other box sets would be much more expensive. Considering this album is the 8th biggest worldwide seller at 45 million copies, this boxset does it justice. I never really new them before but I bought this presale and now i'm going to the show as i understand why it sold so many copies. A true gem to own for any music lover at a bargain price.
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